buffyboleyn:

Not to mitigate all the other gross stuff Thomas Seymour did, but killing your nephew’s dog in the process of (allegedly) trying to kidnap said nephew was pretty fucking heinous. Not the worst thing he did, which was telling, but still fucking rank

Not to mention dumb as fuck… like the sound of a shot would alert the guards less than his dog barking??

Hey lovely, I was wondering was there a biography on Henry VIII that you’d recommend? I’ll be honest I’ve never been overly fond of him but it’s come to my realization (after I read your wonderful history ask responses) that I actually don’t really know that much about him beyond the usual narrative. Need to fix that!

alicehoffmans:

I actually have only fully read one biography of him (I’m fake!!), and it actually only goes over Henry’s childhood and the first few years as king. 

It was a very good and informative read tho, so I will rec it nonetheless:

Henry: Virtuous Prince by David Starkey

I have also updated this reference list, which has quite a few!

As far as articles go I’d recommend:

Will the Real Henry VIII Please Stand Up? by Eric Ives (sorry the font sucks, zooming in makes it better)

500 years later: Henry VIII, leg ulcers and the course of history is another very comprehensize one.

The link for the PDF of the Will the Real article is now broken; but I did an excerpt here.

And added another excerpt on a post where it was relevant:

autrenecherche:

Henry VIII: Privy Purse Expences. 

June. Quarter’s wages to John Hawes and Dyso, watermen, 10s. each. 4th. Reward to the servant of the chancellor of France, for two tables, 50 cr. 5th. To two of lady Barkeley’s servants, for bringing hawks to the King, 30s. To a servant of the mayor of London, for bringing cherries to lady Anne, 6s. 8d. 

Four bows for lady Anne, 13s. 4d. To Walter Walshe, to pay the tailor and skinner for stuff for lady Anne, and to a printer, for books for the King, 59l. 18s.

[ Pages 747-762: Letters and Papers, Foreign and Domestic, Henry VIII, Volume 5, 1531-1532.] 

autrenecherche:

Harriet Green as Anne Boleyn in Six Queens of Henry VIII.

The christening of lady Elizabeth, daughter to King Henry VIII., the 25th year of his reign, A.D. 1533.

On Sept 7, between three and four o’clock p.m., the Queen was delivered of a fair lady, for whom Te Deum was incontinently sung. The mayor, Sir Stephen Pecock, with his brethren and 40 of the chief citizens, were ordered to be at the christening on the Wednesday following ; on which day the mayor and council, in scarlet, with their collars, rowed to Greenwich, and the citizens went in another barge.

mademoiselleboullan:

7th September 1533 | Anne Boleyn gives birth to Elizabeth

At 3 O’clock in the afternoon, on this day in 1533, Anne Boleyn gave birth to Princess Elizabeth at Greenwich. The jousts that Henry VIII had planned to commemorate the birth of his son were cancelled as the birth of princesses did not warrant a large public celebration, but a herald immediately proclaimed this first of Henry’s legitimate children, while the choristers of the Chapel Royal sang the Te Deum. The circular letters prepared before the birth by the royal clerks, announcing the deliverance and bringing forth of a Prince were amended to read Princes

Elizabeth was not the male heir that Henry and Anne had hoped for, but the consolation was that she was healthy and had a full head of Tudor red hair. So the royal couple put on a brave face, as they had no reason to fear that sons would not follow. It is reported that when Henry visited his wife after the birth and Anne expressed disappointment at the sex of their child, Henry responded by saying that they were both still young and by God’s grace, boys will follow.

At the time, apart from upset at the baby’s sex, many people were simply relieved that the Queen had not only had a fairly easy delivery, but that she had lived through it at all.

Given how close Elizabeth had been born to one of the great festivals of the Virgin, it would have been expected for the baby princess to receive the baptismal name of Mary. However, the King already had a daughter with that name, from his first marriage. With that union’s annulment, Mary Tudor had lost the title of princess, and there were rumours in the Spanish Embassy that the new Queen planned to christen her daughter Mary, anyway, in the hope that the new Princess Mary would utterly eclipse the old one in the public’s mind. As with so many of the Spanish-started rumours about Anne Boleyn, this story was groundless, for there doesn’t seem to have been any hesitation on either the King or the Queen’s part in naming their new daughter, Elizabeth. It was the most logical name to go for: both the King and the Queen had mothers with that name. And so it was probably as a mutual maternal tribute that Henry VIII and Anne Boleyn selected the name for the baby that was destined to be their only child together and thus christened the girl who would arguably become the single most famous woman in her country’s history. (x | x)

“Well, pull them down, Your Majesty, you are what I said.” — Part 1/2

autrenecherche:

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So, this passage is from a biography I’m reading right now, and I’m going to challenge it. The author is certainly not the first to state something similar to this take; in fact this is a common narrative that I’ve come across a lot. 

My belief is that this narrative is due (at least in part) to something I’ve privately (well, up till now), referred to as the Anne of the Thousand Days effect: 

image

That line, along with this one:

Yes, I’ve
been told it’s not safe for any of us to say no to our king. That put on, kindly, hail-fellow-well-met of yours. My father’s house will be pulled
down, and Northumberland’s too, they tell me. Well, pull them
down, Your Majesty, you are
what I said.

…are what have endured. 

They have, in fact, endured so steadfastly that I’ve never read anyone challenge them; nor have I ever read an examination of evidence pertaining to the subject (Henry VIII, his mistresses, and treatment of them when they were, and no longer were), and whether or not it fits this narrative or contradicts it.

I have never been able to find a single shred of evidence that suggests Henry pursued any woman, and then, once she rejected him, set out to “ruin her family”. Certainly he had the power to do so, being king, if he so wished, but having the power does not necessitate that he ever abused the power. Moreover, once this is considered, the argument that Anne only entertained his affections out of fear of the ruin of her family weakens; unless there was proof that her father pushed Mary into being Henry’s mistress out of this fear – or ambition– himself.

Beyond the realm of The Tudors and The Other Boleyn Girl; there is no such evidence. In fact, it would be fair to say there might be evidence to suggest the contrary (that Thomas Boleyn did not approve of the former affair– which could’ve taken place during Mary’s marriage to Carey, or before it). Even the work making the claim that Henry offered ‘no direct financial support’ contradicts itself with its own evidence– 

Thomas Boleyn obviously little did little to assist Mary, since Henry VIII later granted Anne the wardship of Mary’s son Henry [after Mary’s husband had died; this leaving Mary in financial straits].”

Henry granted Anne the wardship. Surely this was at Anne’s behest; but it suggests a collaborative effort– after all, it is not as if he refused to grant the wardship to Anne, and the pension to Mary.

Beyond that they had sex at least once, we know nothing for certain about the nature of the relationship between Henry and Mary Boleyn. Due to what we don’t know, it does make it a bit difficult to examine the claim that Henry offered her nothing because she was no longer his mistress, or that he “discarded” her, which is another narrative I’ve often read (again, this assumes a lot– for all we know, they could have had a mutual parting of ways, a one-night-stand, a few-week ‘fling’, a month-long affair, etc.). That he “refused to accept parental responsibility” assumes that he had paternity of Mary Boleyn’s children…this is, again, something we do not know. As we cannot date when the affair was (not even, as I said, if it was during her marriage to Carey or before it) beyond that it occurred before he asked for a dispensation pertaining to ‘a degree of affinity through…illicit intercourse’ to marry Anne; it is impossible to determine if it was even possible that Catherine and Henry Carey were Henry’s illegitimate children, born 1524 and 1526 (approximately), much less probable.

Henry VIII issued a series of grants to William Carey from February 1522 to May 1526. It has been assumed that this must have dated the duration of his affair with Mary, and that the end of the grants marked the beginning of his interest in Anne, but this is mere speculation. If we mark Henry’s interest in Anne to the Shrovetide Joust of February 1526, with his “Declare I Dare Not” motto, and the letter claiming he’s been “a whole year stricken with the dart of love" (which is dated, by several historians, to have probably been written late 1526/early 1527), it is probable that– at the very least– he continued to make grants to Carey for at least five more months after ending the affair with Mary (although this is, again, hypothetical dating). 

So, let’s take a look at that claim again:

“The fact that Henry offered no direct financial support to his former mistress is an indication of his indifference to those who no longer contributed to his pleasure.”

A) How, exactly, does any kind financial support (even if ‘indirect’, which– hello – has a similar effect to direct financial support in the case of grants to Mary’s husband, and an identical effect with her annual pension granted in 1528, as well as the assurance that her son would be receiving a fine education by skilled tutors at the assurance of her sister) indicate indifference?

B) Given the timeline of the probable longest hypothetical for the affair, it seems like Henry did continue to offer financial support, in the form of grants to her husband, after Mary “no longer contributed to his pleasure.”

C) Moreover, why would Mary have expected a man she had slept with to offer her financial support? It was her husband that was under obligation to do so, and he was Gentleman of the Privy chamber, and Esquire of the Body to the King– the implication that they were destitute after Henry stopped issuing grants due to “his indifference”, when both positions had a salary, seems a little far-fetched. After Carey died and she lost her husband’s financial support, Henry did give her an annual pension to support herself, as well as ensure that her son was taken care of (again, her son whose paternity was either William’s or Henry’s– and we don’t know which).

D) The assumption that he would not have helped her if he’d had no relationship with Anne at the time of Carey’s death is just that– an assumption. We don’t know if he wouldn’t have in that scenario, because that scenario didn’t occur. 

E) There is no indication that he offered “no direct financial support” or assistance to his earlier mistress, Bessie Blount (even after their relationship ended) or the illegitimate child he had by her– in fact, Henry Fitzroy was titled a duke. After she had Henry’s son, a marriage was arranged to her for a baron– so the underlying assumption and drama of the speech in AOTD (that to be Henry’s mistress was, and had always been, the ruin of a woman’s life, standing, and reputation), again, falters in the face of the actual historic record (at least, as far as precedent goes– which was, before he asked Anne to be his “official mistress”, only Blount and Mary for certain). 

The financial support Henry continued to offer Blount and his son by her would indicate the opposite of what this passage claims Henry’s actions indicate– again, that he was indifferent to those that “no longer contributed to his pleasure”.

But my examination of the evidence concerning Bessie Blount (and perhaps, a speculated-mistress for good measure– I’m thinking perhaps Jane Popincourt, or Anne Stafford) is something I will tackle in “part 2″.